It is clear to me that in the long run Trump ore concerned and committed to Qatar than Israel. With all his fight against antisemitism on campus why isn’t he demanding that Qatar stop funding the groups a faculty factions that are responsible for for the antisemitism on campus. The billions that Qatar funds these organizations Not one word from Trump.
As you have asked for more questions, I have my own "burning question": why do I read next to nothing about what I would call the fons-et-origo of anti-Semitism in all its varieties, iteration, incarnations, flavours, fashions, etc: Christianity? When one walks into a Christian church, what one sees is a representation of a viciously mutilated male corpse nailed to a cross aka Jesus Christ. The high point of the Christian liturgical year is Easter...the season commemorating, re-enacting the so-called Passion (torture/execution) of Christ in the events of Holy Week And who is responsible for the torture/execution? The perfidious Jews who manipulated poor feckless Pontius Pilate into authorizing Christ's execution. Christianity, with its theologically indispensable Jew-hate, spread rapidly from Roman Judea through the Roman empire. It had a nearly 600-year headstart on Islam. In 323, it was made the official religion of the Roman empire. And in following 2000 years spread all over the world. Bringing with it antiSemitism. Thanks to Christianity, Jews became the essential Other. One could convert from virtually all religions to Christianity and be regarded as an authentic Christian. Not so with Jews. Christianity has been the justification for Jew hate for millennia. So...I ask again...why do I read nothing about its role in demonizing Jews? Christians just too powerful to take the risk?
My take on the seemingly comprehensive and detail-laden outline of future negotiations over Gaza and involvement by various parties is that it’s a way to let the air out of the tires of Starmer & Co, and Macron. They have their very specific proposals to do concrete post-combat things; now Trump has ponied one up as well. Trump has given everyone a like product to ponder (though with little likelihood of acceptance or follow-through). Doing that bleeds off noise and momentum from the Anglo-3 and France moves. It ought to annoy them that Trump can just show up with his own proposal (a fairly silly one, in my view, as if it were written by a sixth-grader for a Model UN session) and suddenly their proposals are yesterday’s news, and everyone knows nothing will come of them.
Trump had to do something for Hamas to react to. This is what he did, and the latest I’m seeing is that Hamas is hanging back, as usual, over arrangements for the hostages. Hamas has already missed Trump’s deadline. Avi points out that there isn’t much leverage the US has to get Qatar to do something it doesn’t want to do; i.e., strong-arm Hamas to let all the hostages go. Avi’s right. People think Qatar is making a lot of money off the US presence, but it’s not; it’s actually paying a significant chunk of the expenses. What Trump is doing with Qatar is keeping it from breaking bad, considering that it’s not getting anything it wants in the Hamas-Gaza-Israel situation, and the internals of its partner in Tehran just keep getting worse. As Avi says, Qatar can turn any “agreement” to motivate Hamas on releasing the hostages into an extended bad-faith process that shields Hamas as much as Hamas is shielded now.
Hamas won’t willingly release all the hostages as long as Israel hasn’t given up clearing Hamas out, because the hostages are Hamas’s only leverage. Hamas’s interest is entirely in keeping hostages as insurance until Israel’s will is defeated. Hamas doesn’t want to “end the war”; Hamas wants Israel to stop fighting.
Israel, to its credit, doesn’t want to “end the war” either. It wants to WIN the war and implement a better peace. A ceasefire is not to Israel’s advantage as a replacement for winning. Winning looks like this: Hamas is never in a position to negotiate the future of Gaza again. That’s what Bibi should be going for. Qatar and Iran should both have to acknowledge that as the new reality. A year ago no one would have thought that was possible, but people are getting glimpses of it now. The heel-draggers are in foreign policy establishments throughout the West. I think Qatar sees it very clearly and is trying to hedge everything it can to keep a hand in Gaza, whether Hamas is part of that or not.
It’s doubtful that we’ve seen the outline of much that will actually be implemented in a post-combat phase in Gaza. Some of what Trump has suggested could be stakes driven in principle, but not in negotiation-ready detail. What I’m pretty sure of is that none of the details will actually include Tony Blair.
My only question, and I ask it admiringly, is how is it that you keep going, on one occasion after another, articulating the muffled outrage, profound frustration and fine moral analysis called for by the evasions and playacting of the global anti-semites.
1. How come it took Hamas less than 24 hours to kidnap over 250 innocent victims but they need 75 hours (if we're lucky) to arrange time and location to turn them over? Don't they have enough experience from the staged theatrics they carried out during the dribble of hostages already turned over?
2. How impartial are the mediators — the US, Qatar (host to Hamas and very generous contributor to American universities, the social justice NGO Syndical and political parties), Egypt, Turkey, and Jordan? Of course it is irrelevant to the negotiations that the US always pursues its own advantages; Turkey is openly hostile to Israel; and Egypt and Jordan's peace treaties are equivalent to a frigid wife, so cold the husband has to go to emergency to get his nethers treated for frostbite.
3a. What message does Trump's treaty with Qatar send to about where its vested interests lie?
3b. Recalling that the treaty states "any armed attack against Qatar would be considered 'a threat to the peace and security of the United States.' Moreover "In the event of such an attack, the United States shall take all lawful and appropriate measures — including diplomatic, economic, and, if necessary, military — to defend the interests of the United States and of the State of Qatar and to restore peace and stability," what message does this treaty send to Israel?
3c. Is it true that Iran, the PA, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad are demanding the US sign the same treaty with them?
1. What if HamAss sez "oopsie, we cannot find these 15 people" or "oopsie, sumbuddy buried 'em an' we fergot our x marks the spots." (No doubt they'd be that glib about it too) Now that should mean ALL BETS ARE OFF an' Israel just goes in an' "finishes the job" but does DJT expect Israel ta just twiddle thumbs an' wait nizely while HamAss re-arms? (Goes on a "dig" fer bones/bodies? really?)
2. Afaik, Trump has been silent on the Manchester Massacre (this one at least). Duz he not see that he's emboldened HamAss an' the pro-pallies "legitimacy" by bargainin' with them? This is a man who gloats an' sadly duz not back down... Tragically this'll be his Warp Speed an' how can deaths not come of it UNLESS (unless) he's willin' ta out Qatar & his Saudi Pals (etc) as bein' JUST as transactional as he is an' admittin' he was too trustin' by half....
Those are the 2 I most wonder about....
Frankly I do not think DJT gives two sharts about ve joos or those in Israel waitin' fer the hostages.... The Nobel is meanin'less today--but I think he's constructin' a legacy NOT peace (it's a paultry lame kinda.... a PEAS mint) :-(
Trump does not even comment on antisemitic terrorist attacks in the USA. I would not expect attacks such as in Manchester to be even something known to him.
Trump has said all hell will break loose if all the hostages are not released.
Trump does not like to be played and he really is trying to get the Nobel Peace Prize because it was awarded to Obama, so I think Trump is going to let Israel finish off Hamas if Hamas does not agree to the plan and carry out the plan which Trump has staked his name on.
I hear ya, I hope yer right but Trump made "threats" an' gave ultimatums before--an' failed to act upon 'em. There was a prior one given re the hostages . I WISH I could still see him as unwaverin'....but instead I see the Ahrt of the Deal.
Also, surely Trump knows 'bout the attack in Manchester...sumbuddy would'a briefed him. Doubtful he didn't....
we may agree ta disagree here but t'day I just read the BEST piece on the situation....sadly, it's not quite the optimistic one...but I think it's well-written... fwiw here ya go:
Yes, it's regrettable... an' the hostages (those livin'? scattered remains?) still an unknown--def. not the promise made.....
Teflon Don will walk on by (cue Dionne Warwick!) an' blame HamAss (not Qatar his pals....) an'...Bibi. "Hey, I was here...I made it happen.... they didn't follow thru...."...I can hear 'im now.... (lol re the widow Adelson!)
It's Israel that'll end up lookin' bad cuz they'll spin this like cotton candy---they'll say the conditions were too punitive.... that the press turned against this due ta "Manchester Massacre".... I'm SURE the BDS folks'll pump out some BS....
The sad part is it's all not good fer.... Israel...hostages...all our hopes.... :-(
I think you are seeing this very differently than i.
1. The “deadline” is a bluff. Hamas has to agree to surrender all the hostages before the continuation of a process ending in its destruction, or, if it doesn’t agree, the process ending in its destruction begins anyway and Hamas will dangle hostages in the future. Israel and the US have little over Hamas (Qatar, basically) to push it to say yes and release and nothing at all to force Hamas to release hostages otherwise.
2. What is the leverage that Trump has over Hamas that you imagine is not being used? The only quasi-serious threat is asking Qatar to expel Hamas, which won’t be enough to get Hamas to bend, and will anyway result in Qatar “agreeing” and then blowing copious smoke.
3. What does this have to do with believing the Qataris or Hamas? The deal is basically Hamas releases all the hostages in the first 72 hours, and then lots of empty US/Israeli promises.
4. The ceasefire is a cost of the deal, not a benefit. No one in Israel’s government is pressing for a ceasefire, or willing to pay anything to get it. If Hamas actually starts releasing hostages, the ceasefire will last until several weeks after the release of the last hostage, i.e., when the deal falls apart. If Hamas does not release hostages, the ceasefire will end when Trump pronounces Hamas not serious (a week?).
5. The cracks about billionaire investments are inappropriate. Qatar’s money is buying it a mostly free ride, but that’s not the issue here. This has nothing to do with profit / investments, etc.
If Trump can bomb narco terrorists to save drug using Americans from themselves, why shouldn't Israel be able to keep bombing hamas and other terrorists who present a greater danger to Israelis.
I think Trump as so many other Westerners project their ideas and assume that everyone thinks the same way so they use their tried and true ways -- but this is the Middle East and he doesn't know how duplicitous they are. How lying is an accepted way of life. It's even in the Koran.
Trump claims he’s put everyone on a short fuse and he’ll not put up with an attempt to stretch out negotiations (my interpretations). Will stick to that out get sucked in? My guess is the Arabs lie as usual and this will fall apart. 80/20 odds. Baruch HaShem I’m wrong
Trump has no way of forcing the members of Hamas who are in Gaza to do anything, but if they embarrass him by not going along with "his" plan, I'll bet he is going to green light anything the IDF does.
Hanna’s is not going to give up the hostages. They are not going to give up anything significant at all even if if means the IDF continues to pick them off which could take a long
The IDF actually no longer thinks it will take a long time to root out and kill the Hamas members who remain in Gaza City. Most Gazans have left Gaza City, as directed by Israel. The problem, of course, is that hostages may die as the days go by.
From email:
It is clear to me that in the long run Trump ore concerned and committed to Qatar than Israel. With all his fight against antisemitism on campus why isn’t he demanding that Qatar stop funding the groups a faculty factions that are responsible for for the antisemitism on campus. The billions that Qatar funds these organizations Not one word from Trump.
True
From email:
That's the most succinct summation of the 'tribals' that I've yet seen. Excellent.
From email:
As you have asked for more questions, I have my own "burning question": why do I read next to nothing about what I would call the fons-et-origo of anti-Semitism in all its varieties, iteration, incarnations, flavours, fashions, etc: Christianity? When one walks into a Christian church, what one sees is a representation of a viciously mutilated male corpse nailed to a cross aka Jesus Christ. The high point of the Christian liturgical year is Easter...the season commemorating, re-enacting the so-called Passion (torture/execution) of Christ in the events of Holy Week And who is responsible for the torture/execution? The perfidious Jews who manipulated poor feckless Pontius Pilate into authorizing Christ's execution. Christianity, with its theologically indispensable Jew-hate, spread rapidly from Roman Judea through the Roman empire. It had a nearly 600-year headstart on Islam. In 323, it was made the official religion of the Roman empire. And in following 2000 years spread all over the world. Bringing with it antiSemitism. Thanks to Christianity, Jews became the essential Other. One could convert from virtually all religions to Christianity and be regarded as an authentic Christian. Not so with Jews. Christianity has been the justification for Jew hate for millennia. So...I ask again...why do I read nothing about its role in demonizing Jews? Christians just too powerful to take the risk?
Very good questions!
From email:
My take on the seemingly comprehensive and detail-laden outline of future negotiations over Gaza and involvement by various parties is that it’s a way to let the air out of the tires of Starmer & Co, and Macron. They have their very specific proposals to do concrete post-combat things; now Trump has ponied one up as well. Trump has given everyone a like product to ponder (though with little likelihood of acceptance or follow-through). Doing that bleeds off noise and momentum from the Anglo-3 and France moves. It ought to annoy them that Trump can just show up with his own proposal (a fairly silly one, in my view, as if it were written by a sixth-grader for a Model UN session) and suddenly their proposals are yesterday’s news, and everyone knows nothing will come of them.
Trump had to do something for Hamas to react to. This is what he did, and the latest I’m seeing is that Hamas is hanging back, as usual, over arrangements for the hostages. Hamas has already missed Trump’s deadline. Avi points out that there isn’t much leverage the US has to get Qatar to do something it doesn’t want to do; i.e., strong-arm Hamas to let all the hostages go. Avi’s right. People think Qatar is making a lot of money off the US presence, but it’s not; it’s actually paying a significant chunk of the expenses. What Trump is doing with Qatar is keeping it from breaking bad, considering that it’s not getting anything it wants in the Hamas-Gaza-Israel situation, and the internals of its partner in Tehran just keep getting worse. As Avi says, Qatar can turn any “agreement” to motivate Hamas on releasing the hostages into an extended bad-faith process that shields Hamas as much as Hamas is shielded now.
Hamas won’t willingly release all the hostages as long as Israel hasn’t given up clearing Hamas out, because the hostages are Hamas’s only leverage. Hamas’s interest is entirely in keeping hostages as insurance until Israel’s will is defeated. Hamas doesn’t want to “end the war”; Hamas wants Israel to stop fighting.
Israel, to its credit, doesn’t want to “end the war” either. It wants to WIN the war and implement a better peace. A ceasefire is not to Israel’s advantage as a replacement for winning. Winning looks like this: Hamas is never in a position to negotiate the future of Gaza again. That’s what Bibi should be going for. Qatar and Iran should both have to acknowledge that as the new reality. A year ago no one would have thought that was possible, but people are getting glimpses of it now. The heel-draggers are in foreign policy establishments throughout the West. I think Qatar sees it very clearly and is trying to hedge everything it can to keep a hand in Gaza, whether Hamas is part of that or not.
It’s doubtful that we’ve seen the outline of much that will actually be implemented in a post-combat phase in Gaza. Some of what Trump has suggested could be stakes driven in principle, but not in negotiation-ready detail. What I’m pretty sure of is that none of the details will actually include Tony Blair.
From email:
The Nobel Committee will announce the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize for 2025 on October 10th. Hence the urgency, in Trump's mind.
From email:
My only question, and I ask it admiringly, is how is it that you keep going, on one occasion after another, articulating the muffled outrage, profound frustration and fine moral analysis called for by the evasions and playacting of the global anti-semites.
With grateful appreciation, always
1. How come it took Hamas less than 24 hours to kidnap over 250 innocent victims but they need 75 hours (if we're lucky) to arrange time and location to turn them over? Don't they have enough experience from the staged theatrics they carried out during the dribble of hostages already turned over?
2. How impartial are the mediators — the US, Qatar (host to Hamas and very generous contributor to American universities, the social justice NGO Syndical and political parties), Egypt, Turkey, and Jordan? Of course it is irrelevant to the negotiations that the US always pursues its own advantages; Turkey is openly hostile to Israel; and Egypt and Jordan's peace treaties are equivalent to a frigid wife, so cold the husband has to go to emergency to get his nethers treated for frostbite.
3a. What message does Trump's treaty with Qatar send to about where its vested interests lie?
3b. Recalling that the treaty states "any armed attack against Qatar would be considered 'a threat to the peace and security of the United States.' Moreover "In the event of such an attack, the United States shall take all lawful and appropriate measures — including diplomatic, economic, and, if necessary, military — to defend the interests of the United States and of the State of Qatar and to restore peace and stability," what message does this treaty send to Israel?
3c. Is it true that Iran, the PA, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad are demanding the US sign the same treaty with them?
It is almost 6 p.m. Do we know where the hostages are and will we see them soon?
Hamas is sickening and I am tired of these shenanigans.
1. What if HamAss sez "oopsie, we cannot find these 15 people" or "oopsie, sumbuddy buried 'em an' we fergot our x marks the spots." (No doubt they'd be that glib about it too) Now that should mean ALL BETS ARE OFF an' Israel just goes in an' "finishes the job" but does DJT expect Israel ta just twiddle thumbs an' wait nizely while HamAss re-arms? (Goes on a "dig" fer bones/bodies? really?)
2. Afaik, Trump has been silent on the Manchester Massacre (this one at least). Duz he not see that he's emboldened HamAss an' the pro-pallies "legitimacy" by bargainin' with them? This is a man who gloats an' sadly duz not back down... Tragically this'll be his Warp Speed an' how can deaths not come of it UNLESS (unless) he's willin' ta out Qatar & his Saudi Pals (etc) as bein' JUST as transactional as he is an' admittin' he was too trustin' by half....
Those are the 2 I most wonder about....
Frankly I do not think DJT gives two sharts about ve joos or those in Israel waitin' fer the hostages.... The Nobel is meanin'less today--but I think he's constructin' a legacy NOT peace (it's a paultry lame kinda.... a PEAS mint) :-(
Good point.
Trump does not even comment on antisemitic terrorist attacks in the USA. I would not expect attacks such as in Manchester to be even something known to him.
Trump has said all hell will break loose if all the hostages are not released.
Trump does not like to be played and he really is trying to get the Nobel Peace Prize because it was awarded to Obama, so I think Trump is going to let Israel finish off Hamas if Hamas does not agree to the plan and carry out the plan which Trump has staked his name on.
I hear ya, I hope yer right but Trump made "threats" an' gave ultimatums before--an' failed to act upon 'em. There was a prior one given re the hostages . I WISH I could still see him as unwaverin'....but instead I see the Ahrt of the Deal.
Also, surely Trump knows 'bout the attack in Manchester...sumbuddy would'a briefed him. Doubtful he didn't....
Lets keep our fingers crossed....an' hope!
we may agree ta disagree here but t'day I just read the BEST piece on the situation....sadly, it's not quite the optimistic one...but I think it's well-written... fwiw here ya go:
https://www.futureofjewish.com/p/israel-was-sold-a-victory-and-got
I agree - the analysis in that piece felt the most like realpolitik, and the least like hopium. Unfortunately.
I had so hoped the hostages were going home.
How long will Trump allow Hamas & Qatar to make him look like a chump 🌮?
Maybe it’s time for the widow Adelson to check in & remind him she expects him to stay bought, just like any honest politician would do…
Yes, it's regrettable... an' the hostages (those livin'? scattered remains?) still an unknown--def. not the promise made.....
Teflon Don will walk on by (cue Dionne Warwick!) an' blame HamAss (not Qatar his pals....) an'...Bibi. "Hey, I was here...I made it happen.... they didn't follow thru...."...I can hear 'im now.... (lol re the widow Adelson!)
It's Israel that'll end up lookin' bad cuz they'll spin this like cotton candy---they'll say the conditions were too punitive.... that the press turned against this due ta "Manchester Massacre".... I'm SURE the BDS folks'll pump out some BS....
The sad part is it's all not good fer.... Israel...hostages...all our hopes.... :-(
Good thing no tariffs on hope yet, right?
Walk on By is one of my favorite songs, btw. One of 1000s of favorite songs, but still…
From email:
I think you are seeing this very differently than i.
1. The “deadline” is a bluff. Hamas has to agree to surrender all the hostages before the continuation of a process ending in its destruction, or, if it doesn’t agree, the process ending in its destruction begins anyway and Hamas will dangle hostages in the future. Israel and the US have little over Hamas (Qatar, basically) to push it to say yes and release and nothing at all to force Hamas to release hostages otherwise.
2. What is the leverage that Trump has over Hamas that you imagine is not being used? The only quasi-serious threat is asking Qatar to expel Hamas, which won’t be enough to get Hamas to bend, and will anyway result in Qatar “agreeing” and then blowing copious smoke.
3. What does this have to do with believing the Qataris or Hamas? The deal is basically Hamas releases all the hostages in the first 72 hours, and then lots of empty US/Israeli promises.
4. The ceasefire is a cost of the deal, not a benefit. No one in Israel’s government is pressing for a ceasefire, or willing to pay anything to get it. If Hamas actually starts releasing hostages, the ceasefire will last until several weeks after the release of the last hostage, i.e., when the deal falls apart. If Hamas does not release hostages, the ceasefire will end when Trump pronounces Hamas not serious (a week?).
5. The cracks about billionaire investments are inappropriate. Qatar’s money is buying it a mostly free ride, but that’s not the issue here. This has nothing to do with profit / investments, etc.
If Israel doesn't agree to the Trump plan, can it withstand total isolation? ?
Can Israel function with massive Israeli anti gov't demonstrations that target Israel and never hamas?
Can Israel alienate Diaspora Jews even more if 40 percent are labeling this "genocide?"
Will the Arabs who matter in this like Egypt and Gutr place firm enough control on hamas?
Can they control the strip from a violent regime that is hamas except in name?
So these are my questions straight off after watching morning ABC with Martha Radditz and I24's correspondents and pundits.
Everyone wants those men kept two years in the world's largest underground extermination camp released to their loved ones.
Will the thousands of celebrities with BLOOD on their hands finally show contrition for their miserable behavior? I'll answer that. NO.
I share your questions.
If Trump can bomb narco terrorists to save drug using Americans from themselves, why shouldn't Israel be able to keep bombing hamas and other terrorists who present a greater danger to Israelis.
As a diaspora Jew, I'm not alienated from Israel, but I'm increasingly alienated from Trump and MAGA and was alienated from the Democrats years ago.
I think Trump as so many other Westerners project their ideas and assume that everyone thinks the same way so they use their tried and true ways -- but this is the Middle East and he doesn't know how duplicitous they are. How lying is an accepted way of life. It's even in the Koran.
Trump claims he’s put everyone on a short fuse and he’ll not put up with an attempt to stretch out negotiations (my interpretations). Will stick to that out get sucked in? My guess is the Arabs lie as usual and this will fall apart. 80/20 odds. Baruch HaShem I’m wrong
Trump has no way of forcing the members of Hamas who are in Gaza to do anything, but if they embarrass him by not going along with "his" plan, I'll bet he is going to green light anything the IDF does.
You raise many of the same questions I've been wondering and then some.
I think Netanyahu needs to use a few Oopsies himself regarding jailed terrorists.
Hanna’s is not going to give up the hostages. They are not going to give up anything significant at all even if if means the IDF continues to pick them off which could take a long
The IDF actually no longer thinks it will take a long time to root out and kill the Hamas members who remain in Gaza City. Most Gazans have left Gaza City, as directed by Israel. The problem, of course, is that hostages may die as the days go by.
As far as I'm concerned, Gaza should be turned into a parking lot! No mercy for any enemy of Israel!